Go to the link below for an amazing playlist that accompanies the novel as well as a video, Q & A, and many links related to eating disorders. http://madwomanintheforest.com/youngadult-wintergirls/
I found a song that i think sums up alot of the book. It's called Skinny bu Edith Backlund. It's really good, and instantly made me think of Wintergirls.
I've just found an amazing student made video about anorexia, it really helped me understand the disease and what Lia was going through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3MDorE7BCU
First post!!! ;) I am blogging to ask you all what you think it means to be a winter girl or "frozen" as lia calls herself. I have been assigned to answer this as a discussion question and my usually creative brain isn't helping me much! I'm thinking it means to be brittle and dying but I'm feeling there is something deeper than that. I also think that the repetitive line of, " When I was a real girl" (Anderson). has something to do with the meaning of winter girl. PLEASE help me out and I'm excited to hear what everyone thinks!! -Kaitlyn Deere
I think what Laurie Halse Anderson means by "wintergirl" or "frozen" is that Lia is stuck in the perpetual "winter" of a disorder that is the shadow over Lia and her family. She talks constantly about being "cold" and in a state of numbness. I think that being a wintergirl might be a symbol of a loss of hope (because winter is bleak and appears to be unending). Hope that helps! -Ashley Segner
I found an interesting site that outlines the shocking and fatal statistics surrounding anorexia, and after reading the success rate of treatment it made sense as to why Lia wasn't able to fully recover after her first round of treatment- check it out!
Lia tends to see things that are imaginary, such as in chapter 11, when she thought there were spiders crawling out of her belly button and Cassie came into her room. Do you think she has schizophrenia or do you think her seeing things is a result of what happened with Cassie? For more information about schizophrenia, check out http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/schizophrenia
I can see what you mean as to why you would think she has schizophrenia, but I think this has something more to do with her main disorder of anorexia. On the site below it shows two recorded cases in which people were being hospitalized for their anorexia nervosa. However in both cases they did prescribe a common drug used to treat schizophrenia which did help immensely in the first case. In the second they found that the auditory hallucinations went away along with the disorder she was being treated with. It has also been found vice versa in which people with schizophrenia have later been found with common eating disorder. http://eatingdisordersreview.com/nl/nl_edr_23_1_8.html
Starvation and lack of sleep are the perfect formula for having hallucinations. It's pretty common in people with eating disorders, and other forms of mental illness. So that on top of losing Cassie and going through things with her family probably just added to the huge amount of stress she felt, therefore increasing the potency and real-ness of the hallucinations.
The last sentence Laurie Halse Anderson ends with in chapter four is "Winter comes early in New Hampshire" (13). Do you think the author put this quotation as simply information for the setting? Or as a foreshadow for events to come? I believe that Halse Anderson gave this to foreshadow the emotions Lia has yet to face. This quote was said after hearing all the voicemails from Cassie, and I think it gives Lia a peak back in to her past- where she is "frozen", and in this cold/dark depression suffering from anorexia. Also, I think winter is being used to symbolized Lia's disorder, so Halse Anderson is giving warning about how Lia's anorexia is going to become a big problem for her once again.
In Winter Girls Lia perceives the world very uniquely, example, "The nurse ruffles her feathers"(19). Now my question is do you think that this is just how she describes the world she sees or do you think that it is what she actually sees. I tend to lean to that it is what she actually sees because we know that she already thinks that she is seeing Cassie's ghost, and that would be considered hallucinations. If she is already hallucinating about Cassie who's to say the rest isn't too. for more on why people hallucinations click here http://www.healthline.com/symptom/hallucinations
In the end, it was never really confirmed whether or not Lia was really being haunted by Cassie's ghost or if she was just imagining it all. Lia believes whole heartedly that Cassie's ghost is haunting her and visiting her. But Lia's shrink believes that she is just imaging it all. What is your opinion on ghosts? Are they real or do people just imagine them and convince themselves they are real? Was Cassie's ghost real?
I think that ghosts do exist. However, I believe that some ghosts choose not to show themselves to other people. I believe that there are times where people have imagined ghosts because they were paranoid. I think that Cassie's ghost was real, but since Lia had the deepest connection with her, she was the only one who could see her. I believe Lia could only see her because Lia was Cassie's one true friend that she had. The others would have been able to see Cassie if they would have had the strong connection that Lia shared with her.
I feel that when Lia see Cassie, she is really having Cassie project the emotions she is to scared to tell herself. Cassie often tell Lia to join her and if you think about it might how Lia tells herself to kill herself and other things.
i'm not sure, i think in a way that Lia's therapist is right, people create their own ghosts. but at the same time, i think Lia came up with Cassie's ghost haunting her as an excuse to continue the bad habits. considering the only reason she started being an anorexic was because it was a competition with Cassie. in a way Cassie was controlling her as she did when she was alive, it just made it worst for Lia to believe that it stared happening because she was dead.
So I have a question about a "moment" I guess you could say. It is when Lia is in her physics lab at school, "Ghosts are waiting in the shadows of the room, patient full shimmers. The others can see them, too, I know it. We're all afraid to talk about what stares at us from the dark"(18). I have no idea what she is even talking about! Does anyone know what this quote means/can explain what is happening in this quote? Or why Anderson puts this in the book?
@aubree I think Laurie Halse Anderson put this quote into the book to foreshadow Cassie's role later in the story. Lia was afraid to talk about the ghosts and thought everyone around her could probably see Cassie too. I also think this quote could have been used to show Lia believed in ghosts before sh even saw Cassie's ghost for the first time.
I think Laurie Halse Anderson used this as a way of portraying how in the midst of the tragedy of Cassie's death, Cassie still lingered within the halls, within the classrooms-everywhere. The "shadows" that Lia speaks of were memories that haunted and followed those who knew her, they were the dark questions that were left as a result of her sudden death, and I think that they also represented Lia's fears of becoming like Cassie.
In our novel, there are many words or phrases said by Lia that are crossed, or marked out. Why doesn't she allow herself to say these things? For example, in chapter three, Lia thinks to herself "I could eat the entire box" (5), but she crosses it out and instead replaces it with, "I probably won't even fill the bowl" (5). Is Lia afraid of something which is preventing her from speaking out as she pleases?
I think these words and phrases are crossed out to show the inner struggle Lia is constantly feeling. She tends to have these crossed out thoughts not only when it comes to food but also about her family. She crosses out Mom and instead says "Dr. Marrigan, She always crosses out thoughts that she secretly wants but cant get herself to actually accept, like being healthy and eating and having a happy family. I think she's scared of failure and that's why she cant will herself to try to get better. Lia wants to eat and wants to be happy and normal but she crosses out those thoughts because she fears failing at recovering or connecting with her parents and getting hurt so she crosses them out and continues to torture herself because to her that's just easier.
In Chapter 40, Lia repeats the phrase "Must. Not. Eat." 211 times. However, at the beginning of page 187, she repeats "Eat." twice. Do you think this is a typo or it was meant to be there? I believe that it was intentional because repeatedly throughout the novel Lia is telling herself to eat, then replaces it with someting that convinces herself not to.
I don't think that this was a typo, the entire book is written almost as if it were a journal, so these were the thoughts that were going through Lia's mind while she was "writing". This style made it easier to understand what she was going through rather than having Laurie Halse Anderson have a person in third person point of view say "Lia didn't want to eat. She wanted to reject the food, but she wanted the eat it at the same time." over and over. The way that Laurie Halse Anderson wrote it allowed you to see the internal battle that Lia was going through and whenever you saw a line that said "Eat" or a line that was crossed out, you knew it was that deeply suppressed voice within Lia that the anorexic side was fighting was there, and that let you know that there was still hope for Lia's future.
Why do think Lia started to see ghosts? I can't tell if she was actually going mentally insane or maybe hallucinating because of hunger. Lia was definitely mentally unstable, but do you think she maybe has a severe mental illness? (Besides anorexia which is a physical and mental disease)
Kaitlyn, I think that Lia started to see ghosts due to undernutrition that she was doing to herself. Lia does have anorexia, which has been addressed, and her lack of food, according to Live Strong, ( http://www.livestrong.com/article/546782-can-lack-of-food-make-you-hallucinate/ ) will cause her to be delirious. I hope the link I provided and my response helps you out!
I do not think that she has a mental disease. She has gone through so much trauma and so many dramatic events that she begins to use hallucinations to answer questions that she can not answer herself. Starving herself is a huge part of why she has them in beginning.
Along with my question above, this is a mental disease that may be the reason Lia is seeing ghosts. Please read and tell me what you think!! http://m.helpguide.org/articles/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-symptoms
Why do you think that Lia's real mom was the only one who was able to see through the mask that Lia put up to hide the fact that her condition was worsening? Do you think that Lia's father and step-mother were subconsciously choosing to overlook what was going on with Lia or do you think that they were truly that unaware as to what Lia was doing?
Well her mother was a doctor and saw from a medical point that Lia was worsening, I think that Jennifer and her father thought that by avoiding Lia's issues they would start to believe she was healing and that she was back to normal again.
I believe the reason Lia's mother was the only one to see thought the mask she out up is because Lia's mother was the one who cared the most. Lia's father and stepmother, though they do care for Lia, were not always looking for what was wrong. Lia's mother though, loves her very much, but because of her personality she comes off mean to Lia.
I believe that Jennifer and Lia's father just want Lia to be normal and healthy so they overlook the fact that she was getting worse just to pretend that everything was normal. Real parents would have noticed and not blow off her problems just to pretend everything was okay. Which is why Lia says, "I pretend to be a fat, healthy teenager, they pretend to be my parents." I agree with Natalie that her mother noticed because she was a doctor but I think she only noticed them because in the medical profession, she was used to the things Lia was going through.
Did the book ever say what triggered or caused Cassie to binge and purge to the point of death. I think it said something about a fight or something. I could be wrong. Thoughts/ input?
Cassie and her parents had a fight at Thanksgiving dinner because she got up halfway through it to purge. Her father blew his top and threatened to not pay for college if she did. Cassie got very upset and left. I do believe that she called her mother and said that she was at a friend's house and would be home on Saturday. When in actuality she was at the motel getting drunk off of vodka. Basically her whole life events, the fight that had just happened between her and her parents and the vodka is what made her purge to her death.
In Chapter 19, when Dr. Marrigan comes to visit, Cassie's wake is brought about in a conversation. Lia says, "I'll go" ( Ch. 19), and Dr. Marrigan says she herself can not go because of work, but then tells Lia, "Absouletely not. You're emotionally fragile. I'll pay our respects at the funeral on Saturday" (Ch. 19). Later on, Dr. Marrigan does go to the funeral but does not tell Lia. Why do you think she hid this information from Lia? Is she trying to spare her feelings?
I think Dr. Marrigan hid the information because she truly was concerned about Lia's health. The day that Lia made Dr. Marrigan breakfast, Dr. Marrigan told Lia, "you're allowed to feel upset about this. In fact, I'd rather see you upset than pretending it's not bothering you"(160). Dr. Marrigan believes that Lia is upset about Cassie's and it will trigger her own death if she sees Cassie's body at the wake.
During Lia's final visit to New Season at the end of the book, she is finally making an effort to better herself. Her parents try to influence her with the motivation of Emma. However she has her own motivation as well to not end up as Cassie, along with her turning point in chapter 62 where she realizes how close to being with Cassie she actually is. I wonder which was the main thing to influence her and i was wondering what you guys would think of the matter as well?
During her turning point, Lia sees that she has many options to choose from in the future. All the things that she can become almost makes her want to live. She has a choice to die and be like Cassie or live and have a bright future. As she's helping herself start to live again, she's helping Cassie find peace and not be stuck in between worlds any longer. Helping Cassie put down her struggles makes it easier for Lia to leave and continue to live. Live a life with less guilt than before as well. As far as her motivation for getting healthy while in New Seasons for a third time, I think it could be split in half. She doesn't want to end up as bad and as miserable as Cassie was. She wants to live a better life than she has been living so far. However, it's very clear that Lia loves Emma with all her heart and considers her a real sister, not just a stepsister. Wanting to be around her but not being allowed because she might damage her, pushes her just as much to get better and get healthy so she can see Emma again. Herself and Emma are equal in Lia's motivation to get better.
When she returns, it is clear that she has a set goal in mind. She has lost so much including a best friend, a guy friend, and a close relationship with parents. All of these are strong sources of fuel to help drive her over this mountain in her life. Emma however, I feel was the rocket booster that gave Lia the extra push to get over. Emma is the only thing she holds near and dear to her, and she got really close to losing the last thing she had left. I think Emma is the main reason Lia wants to get better.
Do you think that if Cassie's dad had held back the comment of not paying for college, at Thanksgiving dinner, that she would've still ran away to the motel?
I don't think she would have run away right at that moment but i feel like something like this was going to happen to Cassie at some point in the future. It felt inevitable.
I've noticed a reoccuring term Lia uses to describe herself, "This girl" (33). The odd thing is, the book will have Lia's dialogue as first person, then it will switch to third person and she'll begin to decribe herself; for example, "This girl shivers and crawls under the covers with all her clothes on.." (33). What do you think this transition of speech means in relation to Lia herself? She obviously knows she's talking about herself, so what does she want to show by making herself sound like an outside observer? Thoughts?
I don't know how far you are into the book, but she also did that while she was at the bakesale table. She said things like 'this mouth' and 'these hands'
Lia always refers to herself in the third person while shes tearing herself down and usually when she refers to herself as "this girl" its usually to say something bad about herself. Its like when she insults herself she pretends to be somebody else other than Lia, instead as an outside observer pointing out the flaws and tearing down this freak show she views herself as. I think when Lia refers to herself in the third person its her severely low self esteem making her almost pretend she isn't herself.
When reading this book you can see the Cassie and Lias friendship was pretty healthy at the start but by the end the friendship turned very toxic by the diseases. Do you guys think that if Cassie and Lia had continued to be friends that Cassie would still be alive?
Within their friendship, Cassie and Lia had an unhealthy competition that eroded their relationship and their physical beings to the bone-literally. Their race to become the skinniest brought them to being a sack of skin and bones. With this being stated, in my opinion, there's only a slight chance that Cassie would've still been alive had the two girls remained friends because both of the girls would've continued to fight to be skinnier no matter what the cost.
I think there was a time for both situations. As Ashley said they had an unhealthy competition the would eventually end their life, however there were times when they really needed each other. For example the night of Cassie's death, I think if Lia was there it would have been like all the other times when Cassie went towards the deep end and Lia was always the one to help her back up. Cassie knew that and I think that is why she finally got around to calling and apologizing to her that night. So even though their relationship was 'toxic' they still needed each other, and with that yes I do think that Cassie would still be alive.
In my opinion, I believe that Cassie would still have died even with the friendship of Lia. It was the dangerous completions between the two girls that had ultimately got Cassie killed. I also think that the friendship between Cassie and Lia was so competitive and toxic that it would have brought Lia down to the grave a long side of Cassie. What they had to begin with was a true friendship, but overtime they lost support of one another and turned in to competitors of who could be the skinniest. I really don't think there was any avoidance of Cassie's death even with a friendship between the girls.
Cassie and Lia's dangerous competition was what got Cassie killed. Since Lia AND Cassie had both wanted to be the skinniest, there was no avoidance of Cassie's death. Cassie still had the desire to be "skinny" when they were not friends. Cassie died trying to become skinnier. If they had still been friends, they would still be in the deathly competition against one another. Their friendship once the disorders started was a very unhealthy relationship anyways.
When Jennifer is supposed to pick up Lia after her session with Doctor Parker, at four o'clock, she never shows up. Do you think that because the snow was so bad that she didn't even try to come pick her up, or did she get stuck on the way there? Personally I think it's kind of fishy because the book never says if Jennifer eventually did show up to get Lia or not. She never called Lia or Doctor Parker to say she might be late or couldn't make it at all and nothing was ever mentioned about it again. Did Jennifer purposely not get Lia or did she freak out or get stuck in the snow on the way?
I think Jennifer purposely did not pick Lia up from Dr. Parker's office. While the snow was bad, Jennifer is responsible enough to at least call to say if she could not make it. After Emma saw Lia covered in her blood, it drove Jennifer to a point where she could not handle being around Lia. Due to being Emma's birth mom, Jennifer does not want any negative influence for her daughter. So, to remove Lia from influencing Emma, she avoided her all together so Emma can live happier.
I believe Jennifer did not pick up Lia from the doctors because she was angry. Not only angry at the fact that Lia scarred her daughter by the disturbing things Emma saw Lia doing to herself, but I think Jennifer was angry that Lia came into her and her fathers life out of nowhere and started messing everything up and changing the comfortable lifestyle they had before. Jennifer also probably thought that Lia did not want to get better so also wasting tons of money and empty time. Jennifer finally snapped and was so angry she didn't even want to deal with the problem anymore.
I found this article really interesting! There is not only bulimia and anorexia, but also another eating disorder called orthorexia. I have never heard of this before, have any of you? Any thoughts? Check it out at this link: http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/youve-heard-of-bulimia-and-anorexia-but-what-about-orthoexia/2173238
I just looked at the website. That's really strange. I've never heard of that. I don't think Lia had that but it ties in with eating disorders and it's really interesting.
Do you think Jennifer would ever fully forgive Lia for traumatizing Emma, even though it was an accident. Also, how do you guys think seeing that will affect Emma? Is it possible that she'd walk in Lia's footsteps and fall prey to anorexia or bulimia in the future?
I definately think that her parents will make sure that she doesnt go down the same path as Cassie or Lia. Struggling with Lia is hard enough, they dont want that with Emma too. They will probably take great messures to ensure the Emma doesnt fall into that bad habbit herself. She might not even think about doing that to herself because she sees how bad it affects Lia on a daily basis and doesn't want to feel that pain too.
I kind of felt like that too, but they're not always going to be able to baby Emma and I think she's still at risk, even after seeing the true destructive qualities it can cause.
I think that Jennifer will never be able to fully forgive Lia even if Emma forgives her. Lia put Emma through so much more than just seeing her be a bloody mess on the floor, but because of that I think that Emma would never be like Cassie or Lia. She has seen what eating disorders are like and she knows from experience how scary and frustrating eating disorders are to the people who care about the one with the disorder.
i feel like they will do everything to pay attention to what is going on with Emma but in a way i feel that Jennifer is very capable of making Emma into the monster Lia was. she often referred to her as bigger and pudgy and often monitored closely what she ate and tells her not to.. whether or not that is on purpose, we will never know but i think its a definite possibility.
Do you think that Elijah was doing Lia a favor by leaving her at the motel while he started on his trip south? Or when she mentioned all the money she had with her for the trip, that he didnt care about her and just wanted the money for himself? I felt that that was a bold move, telling Lia she could go with him on his trip down south then while she's sleeping take all her money and leave without her.
That part made me so angry. He shouldn't have taken her money. I literally threw my book and yelled ' ELIJAH YOU DOUCHE YOU CANT DO THAT' It was completely unfair even though he did want Lia to get help.
I think that what Elijah did was horrible, but him leaving actually resulted in a positive manner. Yeah, he could have left without taking Lia's money, but the fact that he abandoned Lia was what really made her think her life over. She was at rock bottom when he left but in the time that she began to waste away in the motel, she realized that she didn't want to die. I think that without his absence, this realization would not have come to Lia. So, in a way, yes Elijah did do Lia a favor because her being alone and dying in the motel made her want to continue living.
I totally agree with Jenna. Ya,boys suck especially this one. But, if you think about it, if Elijah had stayed, Lia might not have seen Cassie with the see-glass. Lia could've died if she went with Elijah or had done otherwise. Maybe being a little mad at a boy snapped her back into our reality. She got a chance to be a "real girl".
I think that by leaving Lia, Elijah actually helped in the long run. but taking her money was a jerk move. In a literary matter that was really unneeded and was out of character for Elijah. It seems to me that it was an attempt at a bittersweet ending but it just made Elijah seem like a terrible person
(For you to fully understand my thought process as I made this post, I would recommend going to page 145). Anyways, I noticed that anytime that something reminded Lia of Cassie (In this case it was the vent supposedly "smelling like Cassie") she struggles internally with herself on the issue of food and eating. What do you think of this connection? Are there any other points where you noticed this connection? (because I'd be interested in looking at these as well)
On a few different occasions in the book Lia repeats her words. Specifically in this quote, "...The second time they locked em up, I was bad, bad, bad. My parental units were frowny mad, mad, mad. Dead, rotting daughters leave a bad smell that won't come out no matter how hard the cleaning lady scrubs. My parents bounced the blame back and forth, bouncin Lia bean, sick starving Lia bean, what is wrong with her, it's all your faultfaultfault.
This may seem like a very obviously answered question, but whenever Cassie spoke to Lia she called her "Lia-Lia" An example being, " You want me to help you,Lia-Lia?"(Anderson 224). Do you think the author did this purposely, as a nickname or if it was more of a way to expand on how Cassie's ghost was haunting Lia?
I think this is just a nickname that the author has Cassie call Lia to show how close they are, or were, since I think Cassie is the only one that calls Lia by a nickname in the book. I personally don't think it has any other meaning.
I've found a website that contains some good information about both Lia and Cassie's eating disorders Lia: http://www.anad.org/get-information/get-informationanorexia-nervosa/ Cassie: http://www.anad.org/get-information/bulimia-nervosa/
When Lia was at the motel with Elijah and he asked what happened to her when he saw her body she replied with "I fell off the edge of the map" (Anderson 258). Do you think that at the time being Lia really wish she did "fall off the map"?
I think that at the time of the nightmare, as she calls it, Lia felt as though she had fallen off the map. I don't think that that's what she wanted. I took the event as her trying to get back on the map or feel something again so to speak. Her act was not her trying to fall of the map but climb back on it she says, " I'm lost"(223).
Who do you think was the worse friend between Lia and Cassie? One could say Cassie because she started all of it, or Lia because she kept Cassie down when she wanted to leave.
I think that both girls were bad friends towards each other. Lia was the one that initiated the pact that ultimately ended Cassie's life. And when the two stopped talking with each other, Lia made no effort to stop Cassie from taking it too far, such as picking up the phone the night she died. On the other hand, Cassie agreed to the pact, which she probably had some judgement to see that the outcome could be detrimental. Also, when the girls were younger, Cassie often made false accusations about Lia, such as Lia was intentionally trying to hurt her feelings.
Lia constantly refers to her family members as if she is not related to them at all. Even when she is about to refer to them in the relation way she crosses out those title and only call them by their professional name. For example she calls her mother Dr. Marrigan. What do you thing this shows about Lia's character?
I think this shows that Lia doesn't trust her parents. She doesn't see them as family figures, she sees them from the business perspective instead. Lia's mother would never show very much emotion, that is, unless one of her patients died. By calling her parents by their work names, it helped her distance herself from the more, which is exactly what she wanted. Her disorder became worse by doing this though.
i think this shows just how disconnected Lia feels in relation to those she should be closest to. to her, they don't pay her any attention and when they do they are being controlling. i think that much of this disconnection had to do with Cassie in a way too. Cassie was all Lia had and when she lost her she just seemed alone and she honestly believed that, this shows that Lia is someone who finds it hard to believe in other people or even trust them for that matter.
I had noticed that I had become quite attached to the characters, the plot, really everything about the book. Within the novel there where some very deep and meaningful messages that were exhibited as the plot unfurled. With this being stated, what messages, themes, or general messages were you left with at the conclusion of the book?
What does the quote, "There are only small steps upward; an easier day, an unexpected laugh, a mirror that doesn't matter anymore. I am thawing" (278), these being the last words of the novel, tell you about Lia's new outlook on life? Do you think she is a strong candidate for relapsing again or do you think that this time Lia will recover?
She has relapsed a couple times in the past, and I think it was due to a lack of motivation. This time is different because she doesn't only want to get better this time she is also doing it for the well being of Emma. I think if you were to ask this question in the beginning of the book my answer would be a lot different. However after seeing her change over the course of the book I think this time she will actually succeed at getting better and staying better.
Rewinding back here for a moment, but does anyone else have mixed feelings about Elijah's character? He seemed to be a good guy when he is introduced and he always seemed to have good intentions, but then he just left Lia alone in a hotel room and stole her money, do you still think that he had the best intentions in mind when he did this to her?
Super mixed feelings!! Although I think he is honestly just a stranger even though Lia spends time with him. They barley know each other but I think that is the beauty of the relationship to Lia. He doesn't look at her and take into consideration that her best friend just died or that she has an eating disorder. Even though Elijah did a horrible thing by leaving her in the hotel and taking the money it is somewhat understandable they were just strangers after all.
Taking her money and just leaving her there was kind of horrible on the surface of it all but in some ways his actions played a huge roll in saving Lia. As they spent time together he learned how disconnected Lia was from her family and how much she hated their help where as he wished he had a family who cared as much as hers did. Plus, he out of all people saw the most life in Lia. He could tell she wanted to live. By leaving her there and taking her money, that forced her to call her parents and ask for their help. If she didn't want to live and she hated her family that much then she wouldn't have called and would have just let herself die. It was quite a gamble but I think he knew all along Lia would be fine if he left and would in the end reconnect with her family and finally get better all because of his jerkish actions.
In discussion question fifteen, I am struggling to find one answer. It asks what we learned from Cassie's ghost and what she symbolized and did for Lia. I feel overall Cassie was a very dynamic character and I can't think of what she symbolizes in the story because she was so many different things!
When people think of something as being empty they also tend to conclude that it must be weak as well. However Lia says, "empty is good. Empty is strong."(7) What do you think affected her so much to make her think that because she is starving herself she is somehow making herself stronger?
Many people believe that Emma was one of the main people who gave Lia a reason to live. At the end of the story Lia says, "Her hug makes me strong enough to carry the entire world on my shoulders"(277). Why do you think Emma gave Lia a reason to live? How does Emma make her strong?
Do you think Lia would have recovered the same way she did in the end if instead of facing her problems, she went with Elijah and ran away from her family and her problems like she wanted to?
Kind of. I think that she would've been able to partially conquer her anorexia if she went with Elijah. The main thing I struggle to believe though is that they (Lia and Elijah) would've gotten in a fight and he would have left her eventually anyways. In addition, she wouldn't have mended her trust with her parents. She probably would've drifted farther away from them.
I think that if Lia had ran away with Elijah like she wanted to she wouldn't have been able to conquer anorexia so soon if at all. By leaving her family she leaves her support system and her reason to get better because where she is at at that point in time there is no reason she would have wanted to get better for herself. Maybe she would have gotten better for Elijah but by leaving her parents she is leaving the people she wanted to have see her get worse. Ultimately by leaving I think she would be killing herself. With him there is nothing, with him she has no life. Her thoughts would eat her up and I think it would end in the worst way.
In class we talked about and discussed banned books and why certain books are banned. There were some pretty stupid reasons for why some of the books were banned and other reasons were understandable. But do you think Wintergirls should be a banned book? Writing about anorexia with so much detail is kind of disturbing and depressing to most people. But what if a person considering anorexia read this book? Do you think the times Lia planned out how many calories she would eat and how happy losing weight made her might encourage them to consider anorexia?
So I was researching anorexia's relationship to insanity or craziness and stumbled upon this cool Dr. blog site thing. Its just doctors blogging/ answering questions about anorexia and its dangers. Check it out: https://www.healthtap.com/topics/why-do-people-say-anorexia-makes-you-crazy
In the long shot, who really hurt Lia more? Her parents? Cassie? Ellijah? Society? or herself? Everyone definitely but dents in her fender, but who's the one who hit it with a baseball bat?
In the end, I think Lia hurts herself more than anyone else. Well, it wasn't really her who was causing the damage, it was her eating disorder. Most of the relationships she broke can be repaired only when she recovers.
I believe that Lia was the biggest hinder to herself. Her way of thinking was dangerous. She made herself out to be something she wasn't. Cassie had initially sparked the disease upon Lia with their eight grade pact, but it was Lia who continued to compete to be the thinnest. Her parents made Lia feel worthless because they were never around/there for her. Ultimately, it was Lia herself who got caught up in anorexia had sent her on a downward spiral.
Being a Disney fan and all, I thought about "Frozen" a lot throughout the book. In many ways, Lia is a lot like Elsa. For example, They both have trust issues with their family and they both have lost people near and dear to them. The biggest thing to strike me however was that Elsa didn't know how to bring back summer with out first losing Ana. This is just like how Lia didn't try (or know) how to conquer anorexia with out first realizing that she could lose Emma. Just some deep Disney comparisons for all y'all. Thought you'd be fascinated!
Do you think that Lia finds her identity in her eating disorder? who will she be if and when she recovers? She filters out non-anorexic thoughts (I could eat the whole box/ I probably won't even fill the whole bowl, who would she be without anorexia?
So, there is this terrible stigma around eating disorders and mental health issues in general. This is shown in our novel when they boys say to Lia in the halls, "Dead girl walking." and the girls whisper "tell us your secret" Why do you think this stigma exists?
i found a website that expands on Anorexia and if you scroll down a bit it has a neat diagram of how it affects the different parts of the body. Check It Out! http://www.helpguide.org/mental/anorexia_signs_symptoms_causes_treatment.htm
http://www.independent.ie/woman/louise-oreilly-as-a-plus-size-model-i-am-lost-for-words-at-la-perlas-skeletal-mannequins-30274694.html Take a look at this... Do you think having mannequins with ribs showing will influence more eating disorders to occur among women? Do you think that it's appropriate or inappropriate what this store has done with these mannequins? Any more thoughts?
If Lia had never met Cassie, would she have still be anorexic and bulimic? I believe that Lia is simply a reflection of Cassie. Cassie seemed to be her role model, she said "The girl who was strong enough to punch boys and crazy enough to throw up in the roses.I would have followed her into a pit of fire."
Even if Lia had never met Cassie I think other things would have pushed her to developing an eating disorder. I think it would have happened more slowly but it still would have happened. Although her great admiration of Cassie probably also contributed to the development of her eating disorder I believe she already had an anorexic mentality.
How do you think the relationship between Lia's mother and father affected her? Did all their fighting cause a distance between her and her parents? How do you think it contributed to her eating disorder?
The relationship between Lia's parents made Lia feel neglected. The fighting partially caused the distance, but also was due to them being so caught up with their jobs, they weren't there for Lia as much. After her parents neglected her, Lia neglected her body almost in a way of saying that she feels forgotten.
Lis occasionally visits a blog for girls with eating disorders. What does this blog do for Lia? Does it give her reassurance there are other girls out there with similar ideas? Why are your thoughts about her blog?
Lia wants to be a wintergirl, just not alone. "I pulled her back into the snow because I was afraid to be alone"(99). Lia does not want to be a wintergirl alone so she goes to the blog to find others like her.
I agree with Stephanie, Lia does this, visits blogs on eating disorders, to not feel so alone. Lia may find comfort in knowing that she isn't the only girl going through a struggle such as this. Yes, I believe it does provide reassurance for Lia knowing this and I believe her blog may in some way be helping her be/become strong.
I was curious to see what could cause anorexia and I think this website gives a good incite and explanation as to what both anorexia and bulimia arehttp://www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/anorexia-nervosa/understanding-anorexia-basics .
I was wondering what you guys thought about discussion question 24? About how Dr. Parker says that we create our own ghosts. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I agree with it but I don't at the same time.
I think Dr. Parker was referring to the guilt that Lia feels, how Cassie called HER in the last moments of her life. Lia may feel that she could have done something or saved her and she creates this ghost of Cassie to ease the guilt, or fill a void. Hope this helps! I didn't word this very well!
The first time reading through wintergirls Cassie says "they sewed you up with black thread, thirty-three stitches, isn't that weird?" and I was confused about what was weird. upon a second, possibly third, reading I remembered that Cassie called Lia thirty-three times and maybe that is what's weird, what do you think?
Wintergirls is a very powerful story, and at times can be difficult to even comprehend what was going though Lia's mind. People who suffer from eating disorders have all different triggers that can lead them further into the disease, or back in to relapse. An article I found, talks about the different triggers. One big one, is the media. Do you think that Halse Anderson's book could have caused anyone to become anorexic? Here's the article I read, http://www.anred.com/causes.html
I was wondering what you guys thought of discussion question 20. " Why do you think Lia and Cassie took their eight grade New Year's resolutions so seriously? How do these promises play into the rest of the story?" I have some idea of how they took a role in the novel but I'm not quite sure...
In the book, it was evident that Lia's disorder put a strain on her whole family. Anorexia not only slowly kills it's victim, but it also destroys their loved ones that are forced to watch this scary disease. This link below is to a video that features a father who has a 26 year old daughter who suffers from anorexia. I think it gives a really good picture of how serious anorexia is it's effects it can have on the parents of the person who is anorexic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxsfSufa6oc
When reading this book and really looking back over the quotes and analyzing. What do you guys think was the overall main quote? My discussion group had a hard time coming up with one theme that really was the main one throughout. Thoughts?
One more question, how come after being in the hospital for so long, Lia didn't want to recover or get better? My thoughts were that the hospital couldn't get through to her and that until she decided to break her barrier and get better she wasn't going to ever recover. I found this link that talks about Inpatient programs at an eating disorder hospital http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/eating_disorders/patient_information/inpatient.html
Go to the link below for an amazing playlist that accompanies the novel as well as a video, Q & A, and many links related to eating disorders.
ReplyDeletehttp://madwomanintheforest.com/youngadult-wintergirls/
I found a song that i think sums up alot of the book. It's called Skinny bu Edith Backlund. It's really good, and instantly made me think of Wintergirls.
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DeleteI've just found an amazing student made video about anorexia, it really helped me understand the disease and what Lia was going through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3MDorE7BCU
DeleteCheck out this video!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZkfX3Pj60k
First post!!! ;) I am blogging to ask you all what you think it means to be a winter girl or "frozen" as lia calls herself. I have been assigned to answer this as a discussion question and my usually creative brain isn't helping me much! I'm thinking it means to be brittle and dying but I'm feeling there is something deeper than that. I also think that the repetitive line of, " When I was a real girl" (Anderson). has something to do with the meaning of winter girl. PLEASE help me out and I'm excited to hear what everyone thinks!!
ReplyDelete-Kaitlyn Deere
I think what Laurie Halse Anderson means by "wintergirl" or "frozen" is that Lia is stuck in the perpetual "winter" of a disorder that is the shadow over Lia and her family. She talks constantly about being "cold" and in a state of numbness. I think that being a wintergirl might be a symbol of a loss of hope (because winter is bleak and appears to be unending). Hope that helps!
ReplyDelete-Ashley Segner
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ReplyDeleteI found an interesting site that outlines the shocking and fatal statistics surrounding anorexia, and after reading the success rate of treatment it made sense as to why Lia wasn't able to fully recover after her first round of treatment- check it out!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mirror-mirror.org/anorexia-statistics.htm
Lia tends to see things that are imaginary, such as in chapter 11, when she thought there were spiders crawling out of her belly button and Cassie came into her room. Do you think she has schizophrenia or do you think her seeing things is a result of what happened with Cassie? For more information about schizophrenia, check out http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/schizophrenia
ReplyDeleteI can see what you mean as to why you would think she has schizophrenia, but I think this has something more to do with her main disorder of anorexia. On the site below it shows two recorded cases in which people were being hospitalized for their anorexia nervosa. However in both cases they did prescribe a common drug used to treat schizophrenia which did help immensely in the first case. In the second they found that the auditory hallucinations went away along with the disorder she was being treated with. It has also been found vice versa in which people with schizophrenia have later been found with common eating disorder.
Deletehttp://eatingdisordersreview.com/nl/nl_edr_23_1_8.html
Starvation and lack of sleep are the perfect formula for having hallucinations. It's pretty common in people with eating disorders, and other forms of mental illness. So that on top of losing Cassie and going through things with her family probably just added to the huge amount of stress she felt, therefore increasing the potency and real-ness of the hallucinations.
DeleteThe last sentence Laurie Halse Anderson ends with in chapter four is "Winter comes early in New Hampshire" (13). Do you think the author put this quotation as simply information for the setting? Or as a foreshadow for events to come? I believe that Halse Anderson gave this to foreshadow the emotions Lia has yet to face. This quote was said after hearing all the voicemails from Cassie, and I think it gives Lia a peak back in to her past- where she is "frozen", and in this cold/dark depression suffering from anorexia. Also, I think winter is being used to symbolized Lia's disorder, so Halse Anderson is giving warning about how Lia's anorexia is going to become a big problem for her once again.
ReplyDeleteIn Winter Girls Lia perceives the world very uniquely, example, "The nurse ruffles her feathers"(19). Now my question is do you think that this is just how she describes the world she sees or do you think that it is what she actually sees. I tend to lean to that it is what she actually sees because we know that she already thinks that she is seeing Cassie's ghost, and that would be considered hallucinations. If she is already hallucinating about Cassie who's to say the rest isn't too.
ReplyDeletefor more on why people hallucinations click here
http://www.healthline.com/symptom/hallucinations
In the end, it was never really confirmed whether or not Lia was really being haunted by Cassie's ghost or if she was just imagining it all. Lia believes whole heartedly that Cassie's ghost is haunting her and visiting her. But Lia's shrink believes that she is just imaging it all. What is your opinion on ghosts? Are they real or do people just imagine them and convince themselves they are real? Was Cassie's ghost real?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI think that ghosts do exist. However, I believe that some ghosts choose not to show themselves to other people. I believe that there are times where people have imagined ghosts because they were paranoid. I think that Cassie's ghost was real, but since Lia had the deepest connection with her, she was the only one who could see her. I believe Lia could only see her because Lia was Cassie's one true friend that she had. The others would have been able to see Cassie if they would have had the strong connection that Lia shared with her.
DeleteI feel that when Lia see Cassie, she is really having Cassie project the emotions she is to scared to tell herself. Cassie often tell Lia to join her and if you think about it might how Lia tells herself to kill herself and other things.
Deletei'm not sure, i think in a way that Lia's therapist is right, people create their own ghosts. but at the same time, i think Lia came up with Cassie's ghost haunting her as an excuse to continue the bad habits. considering the only reason she started being an anorexic was because it was a competition with Cassie. in a way Cassie was controlling her as she did when she was alive, it just made it worst for Lia to believe that it stared happening because she was dead.
DeleteSo I have a question about a "moment" I guess you could say. It is when Lia is in her physics lab at school, "Ghosts are waiting in the shadows of the room, patient full shimmers. The others can see them, too, I know it. We're all afraid to talk about what stares at us from the dark"(18). I have no idea what she is even talking about! Does anyone know what this quote means/can explain what is happening in this quote? Or why Anderson puts this in the book?
ReplyDelete@aubree I think Laurie Halse Anderson put this quote into the book to foreshadow Cassie's role later in the story. Lia was afraid to talk about the ghosts and thought everyone around her could probably see Cassie too. I also think this quote could have been used to show Lia believed in ghosts before sh even saw Cassie's ghost for the first time.
DeleteI think Laurie Halse Anderson used this as a way of portraying how in the midst of the tragedy of Cassie's death, Cassie still lingered within the halls, within the classrooms-everywhere. The "shadows" that Lia speaks of were memories that haunted and followed those who knew her, they were the dark questions that were left as a result of her sudden death, and I think that they also represented Lia's fears of becoming like Cassie.
DeleteIn our novel, there are many words or phrases said by Lia that are crossed, or marked out. Why doesn't she allow herself to say these things? For example, in chapter three, Lia thinks to herself "I could eat the entire box" (5), but she crosses it out and instead replaces it with, "I probably won't even fill the bowl" (5). Is Lia afraid of something which is preventing her from speaking out as she pleases?
ReplyDeleteI think these words and phrases are crossed out to show the inner struggle Lia is constantly feeling. She tends to have these crossed out thoughts not only when it comes to food but also about her family. She crosses out Mom and instead says "Dr. Marrigan, She always crosses out thoughts that she secretly wants but cant get herself to actually accept, like being healthy and eating and having a happy family. I think she's scared of failure and that's why she cant will herself to try to get better. Lia wants to eat and wants to be happy and normal but she crosses out those thoughts because she fears failing at recovering or connecting with her parents and getting hurt so she crosses them out and continues to torture herself because to her that's just easier.
DeleteIn Chapter 40, Lia repeats the phrase "Must. Not. Eat." 211 times. However, at the beginning of page 187, she repeats "Eat." twice. Do you think this is a typo or it was meant to be there?
ReplyDeleteI believe that it was intentional because repeatedly throughout the novel Lia is telling herself to eat, then replaces it with someting that convinces herself not to.
I don't think that this was a typo, the entire book is written almost as if it were a journal, so these were the thoughts that were going through Lia's mind while she was "writing". This style made it easier to understand what she was going through rather than having Laurie Halse Anderson have a person in third person point of view say "Lia didn't want to eat. She wanted to reject the food, but she wanted the eat it at the same time." over and over. The way that Laurie Halse Anderson wrote it allowed you to see the internal battle that Lia was going through and whenever you saw a line that said "Eat" or a line that was crossed out, you knew it was that deeply suppressed voice within Lia that the anorexic side was fighting was there, and that let you know that there was still hope for Lia's future.
DeleteWhy do think Lia started to see ghosts? I can't tell if she was actually going mentally insane or maybe hallucinating because of hunger. Lia was definitely mentally unstable, but do you think she maybe has a severe mental illness? (Besides anorexia which is a physical and mental disease)
ReplyDeleteKaitlyn, I think that Lia started to see ghosts due to undernutrition that she was doing to herself. Lia does have anorexia, which has been addressed, and her lack of food, according to Live Strong, ( http://www.livestrong.com/article/546782-can-lack-of-food-make-you-hallucinate/ ) will cause her to be delirious. I hope the link I provided and my response helps you out!
DeleteI do not think that she has a mental disease. She has gone through so much trauma and so many dramatic events that she begins to use hallucinations to answer questions that she can not answer herself. Starving herself is a huge part of why she has them in beginning.
DeleteAlong with my question above, this is a mental disease that may be the reason Lia is seeing ghosts. Please read and tell me what you think!! http://m.helpguide.org/articles/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-symptoms
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think that Lia's real mom was the only one who was able to see through the mask that Lia put up to hide the fact that her condition was worsening? Do you think that Lia's father and step-mother were subconsciously choosing to overlook what was going on with Lia or do you think that they were truly that unaware as to what Lia was doing?
ReplyDeleteWell her mother was a doctor and saw from a medical point that Lia was worsening, I think that Jennifer and her father thought that by avoiding Lia's issues they would start to believe she was healing and that she was back to normal again.
DeleteI believe the reason Lia's mother was the only one to see thought the mask she out up is because Lia's mother was the one who cared the most. Lia's father and stepmother, though they do care for Lia, were not always looking for what was wrong. Lia's mother though, loves her very much, but because of her personality she comes off mean to Lia.
DeleteI believe that Jennifer and Lia's father just want Lia to be normal and healthy so they overlook the fact that she was getting worse just to pretend that everything was normal. Real parents would have noticed and not blow off her problems just to pretend everything was okay. Which is why Lia says, "I pretend to be a fat, healthy teenager, they pretend to be my parents." I agree with Natalie that her mother noticed because she was a doctor but I think she only noticed them because in the medical profession, she was used to the things Lia was going through.
DeleteDid the book ever say what triggered or caused Cassie to binge and purge to the point of death. I think it said something about a fight or something. I could be wrong. Thoughts/ input?
ReplyDeleteCassie and her parents had a fight at Thanksgiving dinner because she got up halfway through it to purge. Her father blew his top and threatened to not pay for college if she did. Cassie got very upset and left. I do believe that she called her mother and said that she was at a friend's house and would be home on Saturday. When in actuality she was at the motel getting drunk off of vodka. Basically her whole life events, the fight that had just happened between her and her parents and the vodka is what made her purge to her death.
DeleteI remember that now, thanks Maddie :)
DeleteIn Chapter 19, when Dr. Marrigan comes to visit, Cassie's wake is brought about in a conversation. Lia says, "I'll go" ( Ch. 19), and Dr. Marrigan says she herself can not go because of work, but then tells Lia, "Absouletely not. You're emotionally fragile. I'll pay our respects at the funeral on Saturday" (Ch. 19). Later on, Dr. Marrigan does go to the funeral but does not tell Lia. Why do you think she hid this information from Lia? Is she trying to spare her feelings?
ReplyDeleteI think Dr. Marrigan hid the information because she truly was concerned about Lia's health. The day that Lia made Dr. Marrigan breakfast, Dr. Marrigan told Lia, "you're allowed to feel upset about this. In fact, I'd rather see you upset than pretending it's not bothering you"(160). Dr. Marrigan believes that Lia is upset about Cassie's and it will trigger her own death if she sees Cassie's body at the wake.
DeleteDuring Lia's final visit to New Season at the end of the book, she is finally making an effort to better herself. Her parents try to influence her with the motivation of Emma. However she has her own motivation as well to not end up as Cassie, along with her turning point in chapter 62 where she realizes how close to being with Cassie she actually is. I wonder which was the main thing to influence her and i was wondering what you guys would think of the matter as well?
ReplyDeleteDuring her turning point, Lia sees that she has many options to choose from in the future. All the things that she can become almost makes her want to live. She has a choice to die and be like Cassie or live and have a bright future. As she's helping herself start to live again, she's helping Cassie find peace and not be stuck in between worlds any longer. Helping Cassie put down her struggles makes it easier for Lia to leave and continue to live. Live a life with less guilt than before as well.
DeleteAs far as her motivation for getting healthy while in New Seasons for a third time, I think it could be split in half. She doesn't want to end up as bad and as miserable as Cassie was. She wants to live a better life than she has been living so far. However, it's very clear that Lia loves Emma with all her heart and considers her a real sister, not just a stepsister. Wanting to be around her but not being allowed because she might damage her, pushes her just as much to get better and get healthy so she can see Emma again. Herself and Emma are equal in Lia's motivation to get better.
When she returns, it is clear that she has a set goal in mind. She has lost so much including a best friend, a guy friend, and a close relationship with parents. All of these are strong sources of fuel to help drive her over this mountain in her life. Emma however, I feel was the rocket booster that gave Lia the extra push to get over. Emma is the only thing she holds near and dear to her, and she got really close to losing the last thing she had left. I think Emma is the main reason Lia wants to get better.
DeleteDo you think that if Cassie's dad had held back the comment of not paying for college, at Thanksgiving dinner, that she would've still ran away to the motel?
ReplyDeleteI don't think she would have run away right at that moment but i feel like something like this was going to happen to Cassie at some point in the future. It felt inevitable.
DeleteI've noticed a reoccuring term Lia uses to describe herself, "This girl" (33). The odd thing is, the book will have Lia's dialogue as first person, then it will switch to third person and she'll begin to decribe herself; for example, "This girl shivers and crawls under the covers with all her clothes on.." (33). What do you think this transition of speech means in relation to Lia herself? She obviously knows she's talking about herself, so what does she want to show by making herself sound like an outside observer? Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI don't know how far you are into the book, but she also did that while she was at the bakesale table. She said things like 'this mouth' and 'these hands'
DeleteLia always refers to herself in the third person while shes tearing herself down and usually when she refers to herself as "this girl" its usually to say something bad about herself. Its like when she insults herself she pretends to be somebody else other than Lia, instead as an outside observer pointing out the flaws and tearing down this freak show she views herself as. I think when Lia refers to herself in the third person its her severely low self esteem making her almost pretend she isn't herself.
DeleteWhen reading this book you can see the Cassie and Lias friendship was pretty healthy at the start but by the end the friendship turned very toxic by the diseases. Do you guys think that if Cassie and Lia had continued to be friends that Cassie would still be alive?
ReplyDeleteWithin their friendship, Cassie and Lia had an unhealthy competition that eroded their relationship and their physical beings to the bone-literally. Their race to become the skinniest brought them to being a sack of skin and bones. With this being stated, in my opinion, there's only a slight chance that Cassie would've still been alive had the two girls remained friends because both of the girls would've continued to fight to be skinnier no matter what the cost.
DeleteI think there was a time for both situations. As Ashley said they had an unhealthy competition the would eventually end their life, however there were times when they really needed each other. For example the night of Cassie's death, I think if Lia was there it would have been like all the other times when Cassie went towards the deep end and Lia was always the one to help her back up. Cassie knew that and I think that is why she finally got around to calling and apologizing to her that night. So even though their relationship was 'toxic' they still needed each other, and with that yes I do think that Cassie would still be alive.
DeleteIn my opinion, I believe that Cassie would still have died even with the friendship of Lia. It was the dangerous completions between the two girls that had ultimately got Cassie killed. I also think that the friendship between Cassie and Lia was so competitive and toxic that it would have brought Lia down to the grave a long side of Cassie. What they had to begin with was a true friendship, but overtime they lost support of one another and turned in to competitors of who could be the skinniest. I really don't think there was any avoidance of Cassie's death even with a friendship between the girls.
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DeleteCassie and Lia's dangerous competition was what got Cassie killed. Since Lia AND Cassie had both wanted to be the skinniest, there was no avoidance of Cassie's death. Cassie still had the desire to be "skinny" when they were not friends. Cassie died trying to become skinnier. If they had still been friends, they would still be in the deathly competition against one another. Their friendship once the disorders started was a very unhealthy relationship anyways.
DeleteWhen Jennifer is supposed to pick up Lia after her session with Doctor Parker, at four o'clock, she never shows up. Do you think that because the snow was so bad that she didn't even try to come pick her up, or did she get stuck on the way there?
ReplyDeletePersonally I think it's kind of fishy because the book never says if Jennifer eventually did show up to get Lia or not. She never called Lia or Doctor Parker to say she might be late or couldn't make it at all and nothing was ever mentioned about it again. Did Jennifer purposely not get Lia or did she freak out or get stuck in the snow on the way?
I think Jennifer purposely did not pick Lia up from Dr. Parker's office. While the snow was bad, Jennifer is responsible enough to at least call to say if she could not make it. After Emma saw Lia covered in her blood, it drove Jennifer to a point where she could not handle being around Lia. Due to being Emma's birth mom, Jennifer does not want any negative influence for her daughter. So, to remove Lia from influencing Emma, she avoided her all together so Emma can live happier.
DeleteI believe Jennifer did not pick up Lia from the doctors because she was angry. Not only angry at the fact that Lia scarred her daughter by the disturbing things Emma saw Lia doing to herself, but I think Jennifer was angry that Lia came into her and her fathers life out of nowhere and started messing everything up and changing the comfortable lifestyle they had before. Jennifer also probably thought that Lia did not want to get better so also wasting tons of money and empty time. Jennifer finally snapped and was so angry she didn't even want to deal with the problem anymore.
DeleteI found this article really interesting! There is not only bulimia and anorexia, but also another eating disorder called orthorexia. I have never heard of this before, have any of you? Any thoughts? Check it out at this link: http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/youve-heard-of-bulimia-and-anorexia-but-what-about-orthoexia/2173238
ReplyDeleteI just looked at the website. That's really strange. I've never heard of that. I don't think Lia had that but it ties in with eating disorders and it's really interesting.
DeleteDo you think Jennifer would ever fully forgive Lia for traumatizing Emma, even though it was an accident. Also, how do you guys think seeing that will affect Emma? Is it possible that she'd walk in Lia's footsteps and fall prey to anorexia or bulimia in the future?
ReplyDeleteI definately think that her parents will make sure that she doesnt go down the same path as Cassie or Lia. Struggling with Lia is hard enough, they dont want that with Emma too. They will probably take great messures to ensure the Emma doesnt fall into that bad habbit herself. She might not even think about doing that to herself because she sees how bad it affects Lia on a daily basis and doesn't want to feel that pain too.
DeleteI kind of felt like that too, but they're not always going to be able to baby Emma and I think she's still at risk, even after seeing the true destructive qualities it can cause.
DeleteSidenote: I love you too Maddie :D
I think that Jennifer will never be able to fully forgive Lia even if Emma forgives her. Lia put Emma through so much more than just seeing her be a bloody mess on the floor, but because of that I think that Emma would never be like Cassie or Lia. She has seen what eating disorders are like and she knows from experience how scary and frustrating eating disorders are to the people who care about the one with the disorder.
Deletei feel like they will do everything to pay attention to what is going on with Emma but in a way i feel that Jennifer is very capable of making Emma into the monster Lia was. she often referred to her as bigger and pudgy and often monitored closely what she ate and tells her not to.. whether or not that is on purpose, we will never know but i think its a definite possibility.
DeleteDo you think that Elijah was doing Lia a favor by leaving her at the motel while he started on his trip south? Or when she mentioned all the money she had with her for the trip, that he didnt care about her and just wanted the money for himself? I felt that that was a bold move, telling Lia she could go with him on his trip down south then while she's sleeping take all her money and leave without her.
ReplyDeleteThat part made me so angry. He shouldn't have taken her money. I literally threw my book and yelled ' ELIJAH YOU DOUCHE YOU CANT DO THAT' It was completely unfair even though he did want Lia to get help.
DeleteI think that what Elijah did was horrible, but him leaving actually resulted in a positive manner. Yeah, he could have left without taking Lia's money, but the fact that he abandoned Lia was what really made her think her life over. She was at rock bottom when he left but in the time that she began to waste away in the motel, she realized that she didn't want to die. I think that without his absence, this realization would not have come to Lia. So, in a way, yes Elijah did do Lia a favor because her being alone and dying in the motel made her want to continue living.
DeleteI totally agree with Jenna. Ya,boys suck especially this one. But, if you think about it, if Elijah had stayed, Lia might not have seen Cassie with the see-glass. Lia could've died if she went with Elijah or had done otherwise. Maybe being a little mad at a boy snapped her back into our reality. She got a chance to be a "real girl".
DeleteI think that by leaving Lia, Elijah actually helped in the long run. but taking her money was a jerk move. In a literary matter that was really unneeded and was out of character for Elijah. It seems to me that it was an attempt at a bittersweet ending but it just made Elijah seem like a terrible person
Delete(For you to fully understand my thought process as I made this post, I would recommend going to page 145). Anyways, I noticed that anytime that something reminded Lia of Cassie (In this case it was the vent supposedly "smelling like Cassie") she struggles internally with herself on the issue of food and eating. What do you think of this connection? Are there any other points where you noticed this connection? (because I'd be interested in looking at these as well)
ReplyDeleteOn a few different occasions in the book Lia repeats her words. Specifically in this quote, "...The second time they locked em up, I was bad, bad, bad. My parental units were frowny mad, mad, mad. Dead, rotting daughters leave a bad smell that won't come out no matter how hard the cleaning lady scrubs. My parents bounced the blame back and forth, bouncin Lia bean, sick starving Lia bean, what is wrong with her, it's all your faultfaultfault.
ReplyDeleteThis may seem like a very obviously answered question, but whenever Cassie spoke to Lia she called her "Lia-Lia" An example being, " You want me to help you,Lia-Lia?"(Anderson 224). Do you think the author did this purposely, as a nickname or if it was more of a way to expand on how Cassie's ghost was haunting Lia?
ReplyDeleteI think this is just a nickname that the author has Cassie call Lia to show how close they are, or were, since I think Cassie is the only one that calls Lia by a nickname in the book. I personally don't think it has any other meaning.
DeleteI've found a website that contains some good information about both Lia and Cassie's eating disorders
ReplyDeleteLia: http://www.anad.org/get-information/get-informationanorexia-nervosa/
Cassie: http://www.anad.org/get-information/bulimia-nervosa/
When Lia was at the motel with Elijah and he asked what happened to her when he saw her body she replied with "I fell off the edge of the map" (Anderson 258). Do you think that at the time being Lia really wish she did "fall off the map"?
ReplyDeleteI think that at the time of the nightmare, as she calls it, Lia felt as though she had fallen off the map. I don't think that that's what she wanted. I took the event as her trying to get back on the map or feel something again so to speak. Her act was not her trying to fall of the map but climb back on it she says, " I'm lost"(223).
DeleteWho do you think was the worse friend between Lia and Cassie? One could say Cassie because she started all of it, or Lia because she kept Cassie down when she wanted to leave.
ReplyDeleteI think that both girls were bad friends towards each other. Lia was the one that initiated the pact that ultimately ended Cassie's life. And when the two stopped talking with each other, Lia made no effort to stop Cassie from taking it too far, such as picking up the phone the night she died. On the other hand, Cassie agreed to the pact, which she probably had some judgement to see that the outcome could be detrimental. Also, when the girls were younger, Cassie often made false accusations about Lia, such as Lia was intentionally trying to hurt her feelings.
DeleteLia constantly refers to her family members as if she is not related to them at all. Even when she is about to refer to them in the relation way she crosses out those title and only call them by their professional name. For example she calls her mother Dr. Marrigan. What do you thing this shows about Lia's character?
ReplyDeleteI think this shows that Lia doesn't trust her parents. She doesn't see them as family figures, she sees them from the business perspective instead. Lia's mother would never show very much emotion, that is, unless one of her patients died. By calling her parents by their work names, it helped her distance herself from the more, which is exactly what she wanted. Her disorder became worse by doing this though.
Deletei think this shows just how disconnected Lia feels in relation to those she should be closest to. to her, they don't pay her any attention and when they do they are being controlling. i think that much of this disconnection had to do with Cassie in a way too. Cassie was all Lia had and when she lost her she just seemed alone and she honestly believed that, this shows that Lia is someone who finds it hard to believe in other people or even trust them for that matter.
DeleteI had noticed that I had become quite attached to the characters, the plot, really everything about the book. Within the novel there where some very deep and meaningful messages that were exhibited as the plot unfurled. With this being stated, what messages, themes, or general messages were you left with at the conclusion of the book?
ReplyDeleteWhat does the quote, "There are only small steps upward; an easier day, an unexpected laugh, a mirror that doesn't matter anymore. I am thawing" (278), these being the last words of the novel, tell you about Lia's new outlook on life? Do you think she is a strong candidate for relapsing again or do you think that this time Lia will recover?
ReplyDeleteShe has relapsed a couple times in the past, and I think it was due to a lack of motivation. This time is different because she doesn't only want to get better this time she is also doing it for the well being of Emma. I think if you were to ask this question in the beginning of the book my answer would be a lot different. However after seeing her change over the course of the book I think this time she will actually succeed at getting better and staying better.
DeleteRewinding back here for a moment, but does anyone else have mixed feelings about Elijah's character? He seemed to be a good guy when he is introduced and he always seemed to have good intentions, but then he just left Lia alone in a hotel room and stole her money, do you still think that he had the best intentions in mind when he did this to her?
ReplyDeleteSuper mixed feelings!! Although I think he is honestly just a stranger even though Lia spends time with him. They barley know each other but I think that is the beauty of the relationship to Lia. He doesn't look at her and take into consideration that her best friend just died or that she has an eating disorder. Even though Elijah did a horrible thing by leaving her in the hotel and taking the money it is somewhat understandable they were just strangers after all.
DeleteTaking her money and just leaving her there was kind of horrible on the surface of it all but in some ways his actions played a huge roll in saving Lia. As they spent time together he learned how disconnected Lia was from her family and how much she hated their help where as he wished he had a family who cared as much as hers did. Plus, he out of all people saw the most life in Lia. He could tell she wanted to live. By leaving her there and taking her money, that forced her to call her parents and ask for their help. If she didn't want to live and she hated her family that much then she wouldn't have called and would have just let herself die. It was quite a gamble but I think he knew all along Lia would be fine if he left and would in the end reconnect with her family and finally get better all because of his jerkish actions.
DeleteIn discussion question fifteen, I am struggling to find one answer. It asks what we learned from Cassie's ghost and what she symbolized and did for Lia. I feel overall Cassie was a very dynamic character and I can't think of what she symbolizes in the story because she was so many different things!
ReplyDeleteWhen people think of something as being empty they also tend to conclude that it must be weak as well. However Lia says, "empty is good. Empty is strong."(7) What do you think affected her so much to make her think that because she is starving herself she is somehow making herself stronger?
ReplyDeleteMany people believe that Emma was one of the main people who gave Lia a reason to live. At the end of the story Lia says, "Her hug makes me strong enough to carry the entire world on my shoulders"(277). Why do you think Emma gave Lia a reason to live? How does Emma make her strong?
ReplyDeleteDo you think Lia would have recovered the same way she did in the end if instead of facing her problems, she went with Elijah and ran away from her family and her problems like she wanted to?
ReplyDeleteKind of. I think that she would've been able to partially conquer her anorexia if she went with Elijah. The main thing I struggle to believe though is that they (Lia and Elijah) would've gotten in a fight and he would have left her eventually anyways. In addition, she wouldn't have mended her trust with her parents. She probably would've drifted farther away from them.
DeleteI think that if Lia had ran away with Elijah like she wanted to she wouldn't have been able to conquer anorexia so soon if at all. By leaving her family she leaves her support system and her reason to get better because where she is at at that point in time there is no reason she would have wanted to get better for herself. Maybe she would have gotten better for Elijah but by leaving her parents she is leaving the people she wanted to have see her get worse. Ultimately by leaving I think she would be killing herself. With him there is nothing, with him she has no life. Her thoughts would eat her up and I think it would end in the worst way.
DeleteIn class we talked about and discussed banned books and why certain books are banned. There were some pretty stupid reasons for why some of the books were banned and other reasons were understandable. But do you think Wintergirls should be a banned book? Writing about anorexia with so much detail is kind of disturbing and depressing to most people. But what if a person considering anorexia read this book? Do you think the times Lia planned out how many calories she would eat and how happy losing weight made her might encourage them to consider anorexia?
ReplyDeleteSo I was researching anorexia's relationship to insanity or craziness and stumbled upon this cool Dr. blog site thing. Its just doctors blogging/ answering questions about anorexia and its dangers. Check it out:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.healthtap.com/topics/why-do-people-say-anorexia-makes-you-crazy
In the long shot, who really hurt Lia more? Her parents? Cassie? Ellijah? Society? or herself? Everyone definitely but dents in her fender, but who's the one who hit it with a baseball bat?
ReplyDeleteIn the end, I think Lia hurts herself more than anyone else. Well, it wasn't really her who was causing the damage, it was her eating disorder. Most of the relationships she broke can be repaired only when she recovers.
DeleteI believe that Lia was the biggest hinder to herself. Her way of thinking was dangerous. She made herself out to be something she wasn't. Cassie had initially sparked the disease upon Lia with their eight grade pact, but it was Lia who continued to compete to be the thinnest. Her parents made Lia feel worthless because they were never around/there for her. Ultimately, it was Lia herself who got caught up in anorexia had sent her on a downward spiral.
DeleteBeing a Disney fan and all, I thought about "Frozen" a lot throughout the book. In many ways, Lia is a lot like Elsa. For example, They both have trust issues with their family and they both have lost people near and dear to them. The biggest thing to strike me however was that Elsa didn't know how to bring back summer with out first losing Ana. This is just like how Lia didn't try (or know) how to conquer anorexia with out first realizing that she could lose Emma. Just some deep Disney comparisons for all y'all. Thought you'd be fascinated!
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Lia finds her identity in her eating disorder? who will she be if and when she recovers? She filters out non-anorexic thoughts (I could eat the whole box/ I probably won't even fill the whole bowl, who would she be without anorexia?
ReplyDeleteSo, there is this terrible stigma around eating disorders and mental health issues in general. This is shown in our novel when they boys say to Lia in the halls, "Dead girl walking." and the girls whisper "tell us your secret" Why do you think this stigma exists?
ReplyDeletei found a website that expands on Anorexia and if you scroll down a bit it has a neat diagram of how it affects the different parts of the body. Check It Out!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.helpguide.org/mental/anorexia_signs_symptoms_causes_treatment.htm
http://www.independent.ie/woman/louise-oreilly-as-a-plus-size-model-i-am-lost-for-words-at-la-perlas-skeletal-mannequins-30274694.html
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this... Do you think having mannequins with ribs showing will influence more eating disorders to occur among women? Do you think that it's appropriate or inappropriate what this store has done with these mannequins? Any more thoughts?
If Lia had never met Cassie, would she have still be anorexic and bulimic? I believe that Lia is simply a reflection of Cassie. Cassie seemed to be her role model, she said "The girl who was strong enough to punch boys and crazy enough to throw up in the roses.I would have followed her into a pit of fire."
ReplyDeleteEven if Lia had never met Cassie I think other things would have pushed her to developing an eating disorder. I think it would have happened more slowly but it still would have happened. Although her great admiration of Cassie probably also contributed to the development of her eating disorder I believe she already had an anorexic mentality.
DeleteHow do you think the relationship between Lia's mother and father affected her? Did all their fighting cause a distance between her and her parents? How do you think it contributed to her eating disorder?
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between Lia's parents made Lia feel neglected. The fighting partially caused the distance, but also was due to them being so caught up with their jobs, they weren't there for Lia as much. After her parents neglected her, Lia neglected her body almost in a way of saying that she feels forgotten.
DeleteLis occasionally visits a blog for girls with eating disorders. What does this blog do for Lia? Does it give her reassurance there are other girls out there with similar ideas? Why are your thoughts about her blog?
ReplyDeleteLia wants to be a wintergirl, just not alone. "I pulled her back into the snow because I was afraid to be alone"(99). Lia does not want to be a wintergirl alone so she goes to the blog to find others like her.
DeleteI agree with Stephanie, Lia does this, visits blogs on eating disorders, to not feel so alone. Lia may find comfort in knowing that she isn't the only girl going through a struggle such as this. Yes, I believe it does provide reassurance for Lia knowing this and I believe her blog may in some way be helping her be/become strong.
DeleteI was curious to see what could cause anorexia and I think this website gives a good incite and explanation as to what both anorexia and bulimia arehttp://www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/anorexia-nervosa/understanding-anorexia-basics .
ReplyDeleteI was wondering what you guys thought about discussion question 24? About how Dr. Parker says that we create our own ghosts. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I agree with it but I don't at the same time.
ReplyDeleteI think Dr. Parker was referring to the guilt that Lia feels, how Cassie called HER in the last moments of her life. Lia may feel that she could have done something or saved her and she creates this ghost of Cassie to ease the guilt, or fill a void. Hope this helps! I didn't word this very well!
DeleteThe first time reading through wintergirls Cassie says "they sewed you up with black thread, thirty-three stitches, isn't that weird?" and I was confused about what was weird. upon a second, possibly third, reading I remembered that Cassie called Lia thirty-three times and maybe that is what's weird, what do you think?
ReplyDeleteWintergirls is a very powerful story, and at times can be difficult to even comprehend what was going though Lia's mind. People who suffer from eating disorders have all different triggers that can lead them further into the disease, or back in to relapse. An article I found, talks about the different triggers. One big one, is the media. Do you think that Halse Anderson's book could have caused anyone to become anorexic? Here's the article I read, http://www.anred.com/causes.html
ReplyDeleteI was wondering what you guys thought of discussion question 20. " Why do you think Lia and Cassie took their eight grade New Year's resolutions so seriously? How do these promises play into the rest of the story?" I have some idea of how they took a role in the novel but I'm not quite sure...
ReplyDeleteIn the book, it was evident that Lia's disorder put a strain on her whole family. Anorexia not only slowly kills it's victim, but it also destroys their loved ones that are forced to watch this scary disease. This link below is to a video that features a father who has a 26 year old daughter who suffers from anorexia. I think it gives a really good picture of how serious anorexia is it's effects it can have on the parents of the person who is anorexic.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxsfSufa6oc
When reading this book and really looking back over the quotes and analyzing. What do you guys think was the overall main quote? My discussion group had a hard time coming up with one theme that really was the main one throughout. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteOne more question, how come after being in the hospital for so long, Lia didn't want to recover or get better? My thoughts were that the hospital couldn't get through to her and that until she decided to break her barrier and get better she wasn't going to ever recover. I found this link that talks about Inpatient programs at an eating disorder hospital http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/eating_disorders/patient_information/inpatient.html
ReplyDelete